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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 686

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for the 28th of november

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2021 richard saunders coming to you from

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a wet wild windy gray

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sydney australia

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not only do we have the

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uh storms and flooding to worry about we

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have the floods of anti-vaxxers

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conspiracy theorists and so on

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flooding our streets here in sydney in

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melbourne and other capitals just

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yesterday we had more mass protests

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with the gaggle of diverse conspiracy

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theorists taking to the street demanding

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freedom and well you've seen it all

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before

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but i hope they realize

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that they are

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relatively free to

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parade through the streets and protest

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because most of the population

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actually turned out to get vaccinated

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but what's coming up on this week's show

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or soon

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before we get into the

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main body of the show i will tell you

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the results at long last the great

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australian prediction project last

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weekend at the

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skepticon which was a great success i'm

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pleased to say the online convention

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from australian and new zealand skeptics

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i announced the results i'll give those

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to you in a moment

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but we're kicking off this skeptic zone

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today with an interview with the

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fabulous celestia ward from the squaring

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the strange podcast she does with

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pasquale and ben

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a wide-ranging interview where we talk

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about her artistic background and her

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involvement in skepticism and podcasts

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and as a special added extra bonus

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feature add-on

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whatever

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we have that whole interview you can

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enjoy listening to through your

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earphones or if you go to youtube

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and links in this week's show notes or

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you subscribe via

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youtube to the skeptic's own youtube

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channel you'll see

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the interview

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because we conducted that via zoom and

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we recorded that video worth having a

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look because you can see

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pictures of some of the things that we

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refer to

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during the interview

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following that it's the book of tim with

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tim bendum and tim i'll have to visit

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your place or you'll have to visit the

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studios before long because that's the

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last book of tim we recorded in a big

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session we did some weeks ago so a

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little break from the book of tim and

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then we'll get back into it probably in

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a few weeks or early in the new year

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and around off the show back to the

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trove archives once again

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where this week we'll look at references

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in australian newspapers and so on too

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reiki

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one of these uh

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so-called energy healing methodologies

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where magical

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energy unknown to science is channeled

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through your hands

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apparently

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now as i said before

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the

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skeptic on

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skepticon was a big success and thank

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you to everybody who worked so hard

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behind the scenes to make that happen

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but yes i announced the long-awaited

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results of the great australian

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prediction project something i've been

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doing for 12 years and in the last few

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years with a team

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of wonderful people helping me online

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and in person

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and

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one of the downsides is of course that

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we are no longer meeting every week and

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uh

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that was a lot of fun anyway

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at the end of the day when you boil it

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down when you have a look at it when you

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get the results

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roughly 11

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of psychic predictions made in australia

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publish predictions over a two decade

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period roughly 11

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can be categorized as

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true in one respect or another or coming

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true or seem to be correct which means

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about 89

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of psychic predictions over the last two

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decades were either wrong

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or too vague

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to really count one way or the other

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or were

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uh predictions which were expected to

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happen

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for example earthquakes in california

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now if you subscribe to the skeptic

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magazine the journal from australian

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skeptics in the very next issue

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is the full report

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going over many pages of the

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way we went about conducting this

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project this report the database the

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analysis and so on

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but in the

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opinion of

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the author

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me

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psychics so-called psychics have a no

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better success rate

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in predicting the future then you or i

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it's called

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guessing and then cherry picking

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well as i gaze out at the rain pouring

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down i think well

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this time of the year still spring is

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changing into summer slowly and for many

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people for many people holidays are just

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ahead i think of all the uh the students

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who are having big vacations

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soon

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summer holidays

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i think it'll be sometime after the rain

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i hope so

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs grab a slice of cake

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out of the fridge

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it's a good day for cake while i do that

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[Music]

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it is my

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absolute pleasure and delight to

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introduce a voice you probably know very

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well if you listen to squaring the

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strange that wonderful podcast from the

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united states it's one of the co-hosts

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celestia ward hello celestia hi richard

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how are you doing well we're doing

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pretty well in australia and new zealand

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at the moment

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before we get into more about the

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podcast i

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am was just wrecking my brains i think

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we met you and i met at the amazing

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meeting in las vegas

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yes was it years and years ago years ago

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and and i i was wrecking my brain why

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were you there how how did you find

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yourself being involved in this crazy

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skepticism and why were you at the

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amazing meeting well

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a friend of mine you know i've always

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had philosophical discussions and

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scientific discussions with close

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friends and a co-worker who i would have

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such discussions with said hey have you

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ever listened to you know skeptics guide

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to the universe and i said

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no never heard of that well there's this

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whole movement it's like the skeptics

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movement it's like kind of like the

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atheist movement but it's about

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skepticism and

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you know fighting

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can i curse bullcrap i'll say bullcrap

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it's about fighting crap all right

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uh i i started getting into it a little

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bit and then i spent some time in the

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hospital and i think i've told you this

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story before i spent some time in the

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hospital yeah a bacterial infection

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tried to kill me and as a result i had

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to spend quite a bit of time uh just

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laying around bored as i healed up

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and i started listening to all these

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skeptical podcasts and yours was

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especially a favorite of mine

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um there's something very comforting

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about the way you blend skepticism with

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just

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nice comforting tones and oh i'm gonna

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go downstairs and get myself

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a slice of toast and put some

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whatever you guys put on it in in

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australia and

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and and warm up a cup of soup and then

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get to the skeptic zone and yes yeah and

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that just was very

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skepticism with a spoonful of homemade

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comfort

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and uh anyway that got me into

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skepticism and then i found out they'd

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do conventions and there was right in my

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hometown so how could i not go i got to

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attend i think three or four of them

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before they ended

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yes yes i i and i

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i guess it was the first time you were

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there or the second i can't remember

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exactly when but i you came to my

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attention i think you were wearing an

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artistic

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beret were you wearing a beret at the

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time or something don't think i know i

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only wear a beret if i'm actually

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quote-unquote performing okay

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i'm drawing caricatures

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obviously i'm getting lots of things

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conflated in my mind but i have

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i have drawn caricatures

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at some of the skeptical meetings maybe

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that's it yeah

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you gave me you gave me your card and it

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was this crazy sketch of you madly

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running with a pencil

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and so uh

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so we we progressed a few years and

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during the the time

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a caricature you did of our dear friend

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dr angie mattke came to my attention

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and when i saw it i

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i was so impressed because when i looked

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at the caricature i could see

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angie's character

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her personality coming up

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wow that's that's an amazing

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uh skill she's celestia's developed

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i know

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i'll get one done for el dear friend

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maynard and you did a wonderful

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caricature of maynard

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and then you did one of me which i was

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very thrilled and i still use maynard

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uses his on his business cards i use

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mine on my business card i i am going to

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have to update it and put a little more

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snow on the roof i know right

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and then we and then i had you do one

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for a dear friend uh

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uh in melbourne

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um michelle biggesmar

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and she was thrilled with that so that's

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that's great that that's a wonderful

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thing that you do and folks it's it's

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it's it's terrific well i i'd like to

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thank you for calling it a skill that

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i've developed instead of a a god-given

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talent

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something that i was mystically imbued

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with because

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it comes with absolutely no work it's

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hard work and practice i can tell you

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that from my origami creations believe

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me folks it's hard work and years years

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of practice but let's get back let's get

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back to squaring the strange so

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there you were doing caricatures of

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skeptics like me and

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and our friends and

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being interested in the movement but now

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you're as i said you're one of the

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co-hosts of one of one of the the great

286
00:10:42,230 --> 00:10:40,880
skeptical podcasts how on earth did that

287
00:10:46,630 --> 00:10:42,240
all happen

288
00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:46,640
i ask myself that every every week

289
00:10:51,430 --> 00:10:48,880
i uh you know i befriended many skeptics

290
00:10:54,470 --> 00:10:51,440
and uh i i happened to befriend uh ben

291
00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:54,480
radford uh oddly enough at a caricature

292
00:10:58,870 --> 00:10:55,600
convention

293
00:11:00,550 --> 00:10:58,880
he is a fan of the art form and well

294
00:11:03,670 --> 00:11:00,560
he's got such a face for it hasn't he

295
00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:03,680
been right he does and it's not often a

296
00:11:07,829 --> 00:11:05,440
compliment but i think it can be one

297
00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:07,839
it's a compliment yeah yeah um and

298
00:11:11,509 --> 00:11:09,600
carrick at your conventions i have to

299
00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:11,519
let you know up front

300
00:11:16,310 --> 00:11:13,680
it's not a it's not like a comic con

301
00:11:18,949 --> 00:11:16,320
it's not like everybody shows up

302
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:18,959
only only caricature artists show up to

303
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:20,560
caricature conventions

304
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:23,279
we get together we drink we draw we pat

305
00:11:26,949 --> 00:11:24,720
each other back on the back and give

306
00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:26,959
awards and have little seminars

307
00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:28,240
but it's not kind of an open

308
00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:30,880
free-for-all we don't really get

309
00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:33,440
spectators and ben showed up

310
00:11:37,990 --> 00:11:35,760
and i saw his name tag and he had

311
00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:38,000
gravitated over to my table because for

312
00:11:41,350 --> 00:11:40,000
the uh the studio competition i had

313
00:11:43,750 --> 00:11:41,360
brought a little statuette that i had

314
00:11:46,069 --> 00:11:43,760
made of james randy yes i remember that

315
00:11:48,550 --> 00:11:46,079
very well it was terrific yes and i was

316
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:48,560
hoping like maybe five or ten of the

317
00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:50,399
caricature artists there you know out of

318
00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:51,839
like 200

319
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:54,160
might actually know who james randy was

320
00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:55,279
and uh

321
00:11:59,110 --> 00:11:56,720
ben made a beeline over my table and

322
00:12:01,350 --> 00:11:59,120
said that's james randy i said yes yes

323
00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:01,360
it is do you know who he is and then i

324
00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:03,600
looked at ben's name tag and i said do

325
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:06,399
you know who you are

326
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:08,240
because i i

327
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:10,240
i recognize the name i'd read i'd i'd

328
00:12:14,069 --> 00:12:12,000
heard him on podcasts and read some

329
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:14,079
things and i said why are you here who

330
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:16,000
are you are you married to somebody here

331
00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:17,360
are you

332
00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:18,880
which caricature artist did you come

333
00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:20,320
with and he said

334
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:23,200
nobody i came by myself

335
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:24,800
nobody does that

336
00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:26,800
but he just came to enjoy the artwork

337
00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:28,959
and the the competitions and and the

338
00:12:33,670 --> 00:12:31,040
culture of it and we of course became

339
00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:33,680
fast friends over the several days and

340
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:34,639
uh

341
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:37,360
after a while he and pascual decided to

342
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:39,200
do a podcast

343
00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:40,800
and he asked if i would sit in on the

344
00:12:45,829 --> 00:12:43,279
meeting yes and i said well sure

345
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:45,839
uh why i'm not a skeptic well i'm a

346
00:12:49,430 --> 00:12:47,360
skeptic but i'm not a professional

347
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:49,440
skeptic and he said but you listen to

348
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:51,600
more skeptical podcasts than anyone i

349
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:52,399
know

350
00:12:56,150 --> 00:12:54,079
so

351
00:12:58,389 --> 00:12:56,160
with that uh

352
00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:58,399
qualification i sat down we we went

353
00:13:02,870 --> 00:12:59,760
through a pizza

354
00:13:04,710 --> 00:13:02,880
and filled out a bunch of uh

355
00:13:06,550 --> 00:13:04,720
brainstorming charts and squaring the

356
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:06,560
strange was born

357
00:13:10,949 --> 00:13:08,720
so you ran downstairs got a pizza as i

358
00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:10,959
run downstairs and i get my toast

359
00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:13,279
so that's great right from the the word

360
00:13:16,389 --> 00:13:14,160
go

361
00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:16,399
but as we were discussing a little while

362
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:18,160
ago when we were just

363
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:21,440
warming up for this uh your involvement

364
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:23,760
since the beginning has really

365
00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:27,040
progressed within the show hasn't it

366
00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:28,800
uh i i

367
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:30,800
i guess i've started taking over without

368
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:32,639
meaning to um

369
00:13:36,550 --> 00:13:35,279
i was always behind the scenes uh and i

370
00:13:38,230 --> 00:13:36,560
would you know i would do a number of

371
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:38,240
things behind the scenes they

372
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:40,399
technically gave me the title of content

373
00:13:42,550 --> 00:13:41,760
producer

374
00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:42,560
so

375
00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:44,720
i did a few administrative things and

376
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:46,560
was always talking to them about

377
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:48,480
organizing topics and keeping a running

378
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:50,320
topics list which we that's a running

379
00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:51,839
joke with us we have a topics list

380
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:52,880
that's like

381
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:55,120
30 pages long at any given point and

382
00:13:58,230 --> 00:13:56,639
every time ben comes up with a new one

383
00:13:59,509 --> 00:13:58,240
that we should do a show about you hear

384
00:14:02,230 --> 00:13:59,519
a little bell

385
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:02,240
yes he's always coming it's a running

386
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:04,079
gag in the in the podcast i'm listening

387
00:14:06,629 --> 00:14:05,440
i'm you know i like to listen to

388
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:06,639
squaring the strange when i'm doing my

389
00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:08,880
exercise walks and going along and ben

390
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:10,880
says some topic we should do a show

391
00:14:17,590 --> 00:14:15,670
it's quite fun we didn't start doing

392
00:14:18,870 --> 00:14:17,600
that until like the second year but um

393
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:18,880
it just became a thing and it was

394
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:21,120
usually ben but sometimes it was a guest

395
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:23,680
sometimes it was pesquel and uh i

396
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:26,639
started contributing my voice uh thanks

397
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:28,240
to you you kind of really you know

398
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:29,600
you've helped scoring the strange behind

399
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:30,560
the scenes

400
00:14:34,470 --> 00:14:33,120
so much i have emailed asking you

401
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:34,480
questions and you know we've been on

402
00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:35,680
facebook you know chatting on the

403
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:37,600
message thing how do we do this and what

404
00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:38,560
do we do

405
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:40,240
what do you do about that and my best

406
00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:47,350
and yes you have you are you know i

407
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:49,279
don't want to call you one of the

408
00:14:53,430 --> 00:14:51,040
forefathers of podcasting because it's

409
00:14:55,030 --> 00:14:53,440
not like you're 150 years old you're

410
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:55,040
but you were in there

411
00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:56,560
at the beginning of most skeptical

412
00:15:02,870 --> 00:14:59,440
podcasts relatively early on yeah yeah

413
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:02,880
well oddly enough i was doing

414
00:15:06,870 --> 00:15:04,720
pseudo podcasting sort of bits and

415
00:15:10,470 --> 00:15:06,880
pieces before it was really a thing

416
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:10,480
as far back as 2000 2003 i think but

417
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:11,600
this show

418
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:13,199
or should i say the skeptic's own

419
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:14,880
podcast the one i'm involved with

420
00:15:18,310 --> 00:15:17,360
started 2008 but

421
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:18,320
uh

422
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:21,680
sgu and skeptoid and the geologic

423
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:24,000
podcast actually predate the skeptic

424
00:15:27,509 --> 00:15:24,959
zone

425
00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:27,519
so we're all been in it for a very long

426
00:15:31,749 --> 00:15:29,440
time yeah i thought i remembered you

427
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:31,759
speaking with the novellas and uh and

428
00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:33,920
like you they had beaten you by like a

429
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:36,399
week or something oh i i think if we dig

430
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:38,639
down into it i can't remember

431
00:15:42,389 --> 00:15:40,560
but do you know it doesn't matter of

432
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:42,399
course but yes they were all officially

433
00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:44,160
doing their shows before my show came

434
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:45,839
along but we're all

435
00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:47,600
been doing it for well over a decade all

436
00:15:51,050 --> 00:15:49,120
of us yeah

437
00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:51,060
you've got a long way to

438
00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:53,120
[Laughter]

439
00:15:57,030 --> 00:15:54,560
and i go

440
00:15:58,629 --> 00:15:57,040
my three-year-old son might be coming

441
00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:58,639
through on the audio i apologize for

442
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:01,519
that but we do not have a gigantic house

443
00:16:05,749 --> 00:16:03,839
so there's no place i can hide we might

444
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:05,759
get the things about your three to do

445
00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:07,279
with your three-year-old son in a minute

446
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:09,680
so yes you were more behind the scenes

447
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:12,560
but but i i mean you know i'm thrilled

448
00:16:15,749 --> 00:16:14,480
as the show progressed to hear more and

449
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:15,759
more of you

450
00:16:19,590 --> 00:16:18,800
your input and your

451
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,600
uh

452
00:16:23,910 --> 00:16:21,600
your microphone technique in your

453
00:16:26,069 --> 00:16:23,920
delivery i could hear it improving and

454
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:26,079
progressing as the show went on which is

455
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:28,079
great you know you've given me pointers

456
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:30,399
to help improve that and i i appreciate

457
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:33,839
those um i started uh doing skeptical

458
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:36,560
fortune cookies on the show like

459
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:38,480
the first or second year

460
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,000
and uh it was just something that i

461
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:42,480
would research a thing about a phrase

462
00:16:46,629 --> 00:16:45,360
like trust but verify or

463
00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:46,639
you know various things that have been

464
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:49,199
either attributed to historical figures

465
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:51,360
or they're just folk sayings uh or or

466
00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:53,360
they're recent sayings uh

467
00:16:57,990 --> 00:16:55,759
and you know and so i would do like a

468
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:58,000
little like minute and a half blurb

469
00:17:01,749 --> 00:17:00,000
about that saying and i called it a

470
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:01,759
skeptical fortune cookie and you'd have

471
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:03,120
the the sound effect of the cookie

472
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:06,000
opening yeah that was all pasqual but

473
00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:08,559
we do have an audio engineer among our

474
00:17:11,590 --> 00:17:09,760
threesome here

475
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:11,600
and uh

476
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:13,919
from there i graduate i sat in on one of

477
00:17:17,590 --> 00:17:15,600
the episodes that was about gambling

478
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:17,600
superstitions because i live in las

479
00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:18,640
vegas

480
00:17:22,870 --> 00:17:20,799
and uh and then as things become easier

481
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:22,880
it became easier to do remotely and you

482
00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:24,480
know people have been doing podcasts

483
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:26,400
from different cities all the time

484
00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:28,720
uh i started becoming a regular part of

485
00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:30,160
the podcast and it just became the three

486
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:32,480
of us and that seems to really worked

487
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:33,520
out because

488
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:36,080
the three of us bring vastly different

489
00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:37,280
backgrounds

490
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:39,600
ben is in an editor

491
00:17:44,390 --> 00:17:41,919
and a writer and a professional you know

492
00:17:46,390 --> 00:17:44,400
skeptic who's been in it forever and

493
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:46,400
an investigator he's gone and

494
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:47,760
investigated a bunch of purported

495
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:49,440
hauntings and helped people who thought

496
00:17:53,430 --> 00:17:51,280
that their homes were haunted

497
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:53,440
and he's got the uh he's got the the

498
00:18:02,710 --> 00:17:54,400
chops

499
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:02,720
uh tattooed hard rock a guitarist uh

500
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:04,640
worked in la you know knows a bunch of

501
00:18:08,310 --> 00:18:06,559
show business beard

502
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:08,320
big bit he looks like he's just dropped

503
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:10,640
off a harley dave when i met him

504
00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:12,320
i mean he walked into the restaurant and

505
00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:13,840
he looked like he's just got off his

506
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:15,760
heart it was on route 66

507
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:17,280
and you know pasquale and i had never

508
00:18:21,909 --> 00:18:19,600
met before but as soon as we saw each

509
00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:21,919
other it was a you know a really sincere

510
00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:24,160
manhunt great to meet you this sort of

511
00:18:27,669 --> 00:18:26,160
thing and he got on instantly and he's

512
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:27,679
that sort of guy isn't he's a wonderful

513
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:28,400
guy

514
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:31,600
yeah his voice does not convey how how

515
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:33,840
large and managed he looks he's got a

516
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:35,600
very genteel like you know very

517
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:38,160
completely back sort of voice yeah yeah

518
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:40,799
yeah and then uh and he's also an audio

519
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:42,160
engineer so yeah you know i think he was

520
00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:43,440
just recently on the skeptic zone

521
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:45,760
talking about the 5g conspiracies indeed

522
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:46,880
yes how

523
00:18:52,150 --> 00:18:49,679
what 5g is actually all about yes yes he

524
00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:52,160
was and then i'm i'm a cartoonist i've

525
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:53,840
i've studied people's faces my whole

526
00:18:57,750 --> 00:18:56,000
life i'm big on peridolia in fact that

527
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:57,760
was one of the things ben

528
00:19:01,430 --> 00:19:00,000
right after he saw me uh with my james

529
00:19:03,110 --> 00:19:01,440
randy sculpture

530
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:03,120
like the next day or a couple hours

531
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:04,400
later or something he comes over with

532
00:19:07,990 --> 00:19:05,679
one of the old

533
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:08,000
uh magazines we have a trade publication

534
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:10,450
called exaggerated features

535
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:12,720
[Laughter]

536
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:14,400
and i had written a bunch of stuff for

537
00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:16,160
them and one of it one of the articles

538
00:19:20,549 --> 00:19:18,160
was all about paradolia and he threw it

539
00:19:21,510 --> 00:19:20,559
on my desk he goes you wrote this and

540
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:21,520
i'm like

541
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:23,600
yes i did

542
00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:26,000
and we started talking paradolia for for

543
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:28,000
a while well one of the one of the

544
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:30,080
really interesting episodes of squaring

545
00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:31,760
the strange and i certainly can't recall

546
00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:34,160
which one it is off the top of my head

547
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:36,559
where you were talking about

548
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:37,600
somebody

549
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:40,480
drawing someone from memory

550
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:42,480
and you were pointing out

551
00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:44,640
as an artist you knew when you're doing

552
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:47,280
a facial the facial features to get the

553
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:49,039
proportions exactly right means you're

554
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:51,200
copying from a photograph you're not you

555
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:53,039
do you remember this conversation oh

556
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:54,640
look at the words don't think i i don't

557
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:56,400
think i said exactly that because i mean

558
00:20:00,390 --> 00:19:58,320
you can hear a lot of stuff from from

559
00:20:02,549 --> 00:20:00,400
memory and you can do a lot of stuff

560
00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:02,559
but but you can tell if somebody's more

561
00:20:05,669 --> 00:20:04,240
or less tracing from a photograph you

562
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:05,679
know it doesn't it doesn't look like a

563
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:08,000
drawing not exactly but i think i did

564
00:20:12,390 --> 00:20:09,520
give a i do i think you're thinking of

565
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:12,400
the dove ads the uh ads about

566
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:14,240
women and their self-esteems and how

567
00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:16,000
they describe themselves too oh possibly

568
00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:18,320
yes yeah yeah i could actually

569
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:20,320
yeah this this they had this forensic

570
00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:21,840
artist who's who was hearing

571
00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:24,480
descriptions and drawing uh people from

572
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:25,760
and there was just there was just too

573
00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:28,799
many red flags in that where i'm like

574
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:30,880
i'm very skeptical of this whole ad

575
00:20:33,590 --> 00:20:32,400
campaign the way that present they're

576
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:33,600
presenting it

577
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:35,760
and uh and and i

578
00:20:39,270 --> 00:20:37,840
i guarantee you the artist knows what

579
00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:39,280
the purpose is

580
00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:41,440
uh from what he's been producing here

581
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,840
that's right yeah yeah it's sorry it's

582
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:45,360
just flipping around my mind at the

583
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:46,559
moment i can't remember the exact

584
00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:48,720
details but i do remember thinking what

585
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:50,880
a fascinating insight

586
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:53,760
something that never occurred to me

587
00:20:57,510 --> 00:20:55,840
i wish i could remember um

588
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:57,520
exactly what i said because that was a

589
00:21:01,350 --> 00:20:59,200
few years ago but

590
00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:01,360
when the dove ads came out purporting to

591
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:02,880
have these you know these

592
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:05,520
it was essentially this forensic artist

593
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:08,080
listened behind a shield and only drew

594
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:09,600
these women from descriptions of

595
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:10,799
themselves

596
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:14,000
and got it he got a remarkable likeness

597
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:16,559
which seemed a little like

598
00:21:19,990 --> 00:21:18,159
i don't know if you can get a remarkable

599
00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:20,000
likeness uh

600
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:22,720
unless you you

601
00:21:25,990 --> 00:21:25,280
the trick with forensic artwork is is

602
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:26,000
not

603
00:21:31,110 --> 00:21:28,080
the drawing ability it's being able to

604
00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:31,120
pull the details from the witness right

605
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:32,799
show them all

606
00:21:36,390 --> 00:21:34,240
does he have a nose like this or nose

607
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:36,400
like that you know yes yes

608
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:39,600
and so i yeah i questioned exactly how

609
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:41,280
much of a real experiment that was

610
00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:45,200
versus just an ad and

611
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:47,200
apart from being a very interesting and

612
00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:49,600
entertaining segment to listen to

613
00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:52,640
uh i i thought you know what i'd never

614
00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:54,640
thought of that never thought of that

615
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:55,840
angle

616
00:21:59,909 --> 00:21:57,600
an investigation but it takes someone

617
00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:59,919
like you with your skill and background

618
00:22:03,270 --> 00:22:01,679
to bring this to our attention say

619
00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:03,280
here's another aspect you probably

620
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:05,039
didn't think about oh well

621
00:22:08,310 --> 00:22:06,960
it's also a community i'm plugged into

622
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:08,320
you know i wasn't just talking about my

623
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:11,280
own experience drawing people i i had

624
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,039
listened to a bunch of comments uh

625
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:15,360
people had started threads about it uh

626
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:17,360
portrait artists uh people who did do

627
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:19,360
courtroom drawings were like

628
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:21,200
commenting about the dove ads and so i

629
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:22,960
was plugged into that whole community

630
00:22:28,390 --> 00:22:25,280
yeah breaking that down now before we

631
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:28,400
get into talking about the the strange

632
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:30,000
gurgling noises we're hearing from the

633
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:32,559
other room or not i'm not sure

634
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:34,640
that's like rick i'm here

635
00:22:40,070 --> 00:22:36,080
uh

636
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:40,080
just a little bit more about screening

637
00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:41,760
the strange because i i think it's a

638
00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:44,720
terrific podcast i i enjoyed very much

639
00:22:48,390 --> 00:22:46,640
from a technical point of view now

640
00:22:51,110 --> 00:22:48,400
you're very involved with putting the

641
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:51,120
damn thing together aren't you

642
00:22:54,870 --> 00:22:52,640
well that sort of fell into my lap

643
00:22:57,350 --> 00:22:54,880
because we had uh we had some

644
00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:57,360
you know life gets in the way every all

645
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:58,720
of us have got various things to deal

646
00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:00,320
with we've all got families we've all

647
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:02,400
got uh jobs

648
00:23:08,310 --> 00:23:05,120
and pasqual found himself uh starting a

649
00:23:10,630 --> 00:23:08,320
new job and uh and and various things at

650
00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:10,640
home had changed and they had a death in

651
00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:13,600
the family and everything went crazy for

652
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:15,600
a while and pasqual had been editing the

653
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:17,440
show and he said you know i could show

654
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:19,280
you i could show you how and i said okay

655
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:20,720
sure so

656
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:23,200
he showed me how i edited the show and i

657
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:25,919
just i i liked doing it i mean

658
00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:26,960
it's not a

659
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:31,120
edit a podcast on audacity and so i

660
00:23:35,669 --> 00:23:32,880
started doing it and then i just kept

661
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:35,679
with it and now i'm the podcast editor

662
00:23:38,549 --> 00:23:36,960
and uh

663
00:23:40,149 --> 00:23:38,559
trying to do a decent job there's a

664
00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:40,159
plenty i still need to learn but you

665
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:43,279
know i i i get by so i do the podcast

666
00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:45,279
yeah and and from a technical point of

667
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:47,039
view of course when you the three of you

668
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:49,120
are doing an episode you're all in

669
00:23:53,269 --> 00:23:51,120
completely different locations

670
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:53,279
yes we are um yeah and how does that

671
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:55,440
work

672
00:24:01,350 --> 00:23:59,760
vegas and

673
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:01,360
uh

674
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:03,360
ben and pasquale are in

675
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:05,760
uh new mexico and it's the same sort of

676
00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:07,679
climate we're actually not all that if

677
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:09,360
your your listenership might not know

678
00:24:11,909 --> 00:24:11,200
the layout of the uh the united states

679
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:11,919
but

680
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:13,760
uh we're not that far from each other

681
00:24:17,830 --> 00:24:16,080
we're like a state away like i'm in the

682
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:17,840
bottom of nevada and they're in the

683
00:24:22,390 --> 00:24:20,400
bottom of new mexico so it's

684
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:22,400
like just just go across utah and you're

685
00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:24,400
there or not rather go across arizona

686
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:26,400
and you're there yes

687
00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:28,960
so so but but you say right we're

688
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:30,640
meeting i don't know when you record the

689
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:32,880
show on whatever evening or afternoon

690
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:33,760
and

691
00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:35,760
how how do you hook up how are you

692
00:24:39,029 --> 00:24:37,840
hearing each other to to conduct the

693
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:39,039
podcast

694
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:40,880
uh we use a platform there's a number of

695
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:42,559
platforms available online the one that

696
00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:46,640
we've been using is zencaster um it has

697
00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:48,720
a few bugs but they've seemed to work

698
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:51,120
those out uh and but there's plenty of

699
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:53,120
other you know there's oh i can't think

700
00:24:56,470 --> 00:24:55,200
of the names off hand but there's a

701
00:24:58,470 --> 00:24:56,480
number of other

702
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:58,480
online platforms you sign up for and

703
00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:01,200
subscribe too and so all of the software

704
00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:02,720
is is

705
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:04,880
online you don't have to load anything

706
00:25:09,269 --> 00:25:07,279
you just plug into it sign up and then

707
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:09,279
you can take people and take so we've

708
00:25:12,630 --> 00:25:10,960
been able to interview people from all

709
00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:12,640
over the world we actually just

710
00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:14,480
interviewed bob bartholomew who lives in

711
00:25:19,029 --> 00:25:17,039
auckland new zealand

712
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:19,039
that's fantastic and i think and from

713
00:25:22,390 --> 00:25:20,960
memory i think i joined you a couple of

714
00:25:24,789 --> 00:25:22,400
years ago as a guest on the show and i

715
00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:24,799
think that's all browser-based wasn't it

716
00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:27,360
basically you give your guests a url and

717
00:25:30,870 --> 00:25:29,520
and away you go but it's impressive

718
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:30,880
because when you're listening to the

719
00:25:35,029 --> 00:25:33,120
show as a listener when the three of you

720
00:25:36,789 --> 00:25:35,039
are chatting it's like you you're all

721
00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:36,799
next to each other

722
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:38,640
oh yeah yeah there's thankfully there's

723
00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:40,480
not really a delay or anything so we can

724
00:25:43,269 --> 00:25:41,919
just you know chat and and of course

725
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:43,279
there's editing stuff that you don't

726
00:25:47,669 --> 00:25:45,120
hear or see behind the scenes

727
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:47,679
um tell me about it where if we do talk

728
00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:49,760
over each other we try and we try and

729
00:25:55,110 --> 00:25:53,679
untangle that out so yes yes folks if um

730
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:55,120
if you're ever wondering putting

731
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:56,960
together a podcast is not as simple as

732
00:26:00,630 --> 00:25:58,400
running around and doing interviews and

733
00:26:03,110 --> 00:26:00,640
getting together and talking that's just

734
00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:03,120
the beginning then you've got the edit

735
00:26:06,789 --> 00:26:04,720
which

736
00:26:08,470 --> 00:26:06,799
depending on the segment or the guest or

737
00:26:10,630 --> 00:26:08,480
the report be

738
00:26:11,909 --> 00:26:10,640
an extensive experience a long

739
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:11,919
experience yeah

740
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:14,960
the sausage has to get made and uh

741
00:26:19,669 --> 00:26:16,720
and we're yeah if you don't end up

742
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:19,679
editing this uh this particular uh video

743
00:26:23,990 --> 00:26:21,679
you might hear my dog barking and my

744
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:24,000
child loudly reciting the alphabet i

745
00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:25,679
thought it was out here but

746
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:28,400
i'm yeah i remember we have very

747
00:26:33,269 --> 00:26:30,000
different we have very different

748
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:33,279
podcasting uh obstacles uh i've got the

749
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:35,279
dog and the child and then you've got i

750
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:37,520
remember you telling me oh these damn

751
00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:39,600
lorikeets and they're like

752
00:26:44,710 --> 00:26:41,360
what are those and you sent me these

753
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:44,720
photos of these exotic beautiful birds

754
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:47,279
that would be that would be treasured as

755
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:50,400
pets and sold for hundreds of dollars if

756
00:26:54,789 --> 00:26:52,400
they were here in the united states but

757
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:54,799
they are uh they're apparently like

758
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:56,320
pigeons for you guys they're just

759
00:27:00,070 --> 00:26:58,320
everywhere when you get when you get a

760
00:27:02,070 --> 00:27:00,080
several hundred in the tree next door

761
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:02,080
that's it you pack up the podcast and

762
00:27:05,269 --> 00:27:03,840
you just go down and have a nice cold

763
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:05,279
drink or something

764
00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:07,279
now before we go before we go and

765
00:27:12,070 --> 00:27:09,200
speaking about the funny gurgling noises

766
00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:12,080
from the the next room of course uh

767
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:13,200
you're a

768
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:15,520
a relatively new mom you've been a mum

769
00:27:19,350 --> 00:27:17,360
now for a few years

770
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:19,360
and just from your point

771
00:27:22,389 --> 00:27:20,640
i was just about to say just from your

772
00:27:24,789 --> 00:27:22,399
point of view and being involved in

773
00:27:27,029 --> 00:27:24,799
critical thinking and skepticism you

774
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:27,039
must have especially in the early days

775
00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:29,360
come across a fair bit of shall we say

776
00:27:35,029 --> 00:27:32,960
woo and nonsense aimed at young mothers

777
00:27:37,830 --> 00:27:35,039
oh yeah well i'm not a young mother but

778
00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:37,840
i'm a new mother a new mother let me oh

779
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:39,919
i waited quite a while before i decided

780
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:41,520
to procreate

781
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:44,320
and uh there you know mainly when you're

782
00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:46,640
pregnant that seems to be the target

783
00:27:49,909 --> 00:27:48,640
zone when you're pregnant and when

784
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:49,919
you're very new mother and you're

785
00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:52,480
breastfeeding i mean and i got sucked up

786
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:53,840
into a lot you know

787
00:27:59,110 --> 00:27:56,399
not fully but i i

788
00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:59,120
you gotta kind of like harness your your

789
00:28:02,789 --> 00:28:00,720
your feelings because your body is

790
00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:02,799
flooded with all sorts of hormones and

791
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:04,640
and worries and

792
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:06,240
and you're in this altered state of mind

793
00:28:08,789 --> 00:28:07,200
where you're just trying to do

794
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:08,799
everything right and you're paranoid

795
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:10,640
about all the things that can go wrong

796
00:28:15,669 --> 00:28:12,960
and so if you hear you know breast milk

797
00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:15,679
is the best thing for your child

798
00:28:19,190 --> 00:28:17,200
even if you're a skeptic you're like

799
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:19,200
well i should try you know

800
00:28:23,190 --> 00:28:20,320
and

801
00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:23,200
was just not one of those ones that

802
00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:25,520
could breastfeed easily and i had a

803
00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:28,000
discussion with my my doctor my ob gyn

804
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:29,840
and he said well why are you trying to

805
00:28:33,909 --> 00:28:31,760
breastfeed i said because it's supposed

806
00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:33,919
to be i mean i'm a skeptic i know it's

807
00:28:38,389 --> 00:28:36,720
not completely you know uh

808
00:28:41,029 --> 00:28:38,399
everything they say but it does give the

809
00:28:44,230 --> 00:28:41,039
child antibodies right and he said well

810
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:44,240
yeah a little bit temporarily

811
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:46,080
and i said

812
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:48,320
what are the reasons to breastfeed and

813
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:49,840
he said the number one reason is it

814
00:28:56,230 --> 00:28:51,600
saves money

815
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:56,240
i thought about that and i had i had

816
00:29:01,750 --> 00:28:59,840
turned down a five hundred dollar job

817
00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:01,760
because i need you could

818
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:04,399
an overtime thing i had i had come i had

819
00:29:07,590 --> 00:29:06,559
been hired to do like two hours at this

820
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:07,600
corporate

821
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:09,840
event and they wanted me to be later and

822
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:11,760
i could not because i didn't bring my

823
00:29:15,750 --> 00:29:14,480
pumping apparatus with me and i you know

824
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:15,760
i

825
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:57,120
you need to go to the people who know

826
00:30:01,029 --> 00:29:58,960
the material

827
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:01,039
and as a new mother it's just almost

828
00:30:06,389 --> 00:30:03,840
impossible to research absolutely

829
00:30:08,549 --> 00:30:06,399
everything that that comes at you in the

830
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:08,559
short amount of time you have yeah yeah

831
00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:10,240
yeah you're you're not you're only a

832
00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:11,520
mother for you know

833
00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:12,880
your mother forever i guess after you

834
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:14,640
have a child but yes but you're only

835
00:30:19,029 --> 00:30:16,960
pregnant and then have a newborn for so

836
00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:19,039
long that's a limited amount of time and

837
00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:21,200
you get a and you're also unlimited

838
00:30:25,269 --> 00:30:23,120
sleep

839
00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:25,279
and you're just deluged with information

840
00:30:28,230 --> 00:30:26,240
and so

841
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:28,240
it helps to have a skeptical toolkit but

842
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:30,640
yeah yeah

843
00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:32,320
a little bit of a little bit of critical

844
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:34,240
thinking can go a long way well listen

845
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:36,399
celestia well what a treat to catch up

846
00:30:39,830 --> 00:30:38,080
with you again we're old friends apart

847
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:39,840
from anything else we are

848
00:30:43,430 --> 00:30:41,600
good firm friends we've we've known each

849
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:43,440
other for many years it was always a

850
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:44,960
great delight to see you in person

851
00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:46,960
haven't seen you in person for far too

852
00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:49,360
long i hope you can get out to

853
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:50,960
uh one of the times that they have the

854
00:30:56,710 --> 00:30:54,799
uh cycon well now the world is

855
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:56,720
this is a skeptical thing to do now the

856
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:59,039
world is fingers crossed getting a bit

857
00:31:02,549 --> 00:30:59,840
more

858
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:02,559
together after the pandemic uh we'll

859
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:04,240
have to wait and see now when when

860
00:31:07,750 --> 00:31:06,080
people want to check out your podcast if

861
00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:07,760
they haven't heard squaring the strange

862
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:09,440
so far uh

863
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:11,600
where should they run to uh find out

864
00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:14,399
more well we've just got a link tree uh

865
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:15,360
started so if you go to

866
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:17,200
squaringthestrange.com you'll find our

867
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:19,200
little link tree that goes to various

868
00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:21,440
things about the the show uh and and of

869
00:31:27,509 --> 00:31:23,360
course the show squaring the strange

870
00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:27,519
you'll find that on uh libsyn.com and uh

871
00:31:31,590 --> 00:31:28,640
and uh

872
00:31:33,029 --> 00:31:31,600
all your podcast dispensers so yes

873
00:31:34,630 --> 00:31:33,039
and of course if you listen to the

874
00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:34,640
skeptic zone you'll often hear

875
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:36,159
promotions for squaring the strange

876
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:37,840
because i'm very pleased to

877
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:39,200
keep promoting the show because i

878
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:40,559
believe it's a good show and it's an

879
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:42,480
entertaining show with three wonderful

880
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:44,080
hosts including

881
00:31:48,149 --> 00:31:46,000
our guest today celestia awards celestia

882
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:48,159
ward all the way over there in fabulous

883
00:31:54,110 --> 00:31:50,960
las vegas thank you very much thanks for

884
00:32:04,630 --> 00:31:54,120
having me richard

885
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:06,710
i sure do miss going to those skeptical

886
00:32:11,909 --> 00:32:09,919
meetings in pubs and cafes to hear talks

887
00:32:15,290 --> 00:32:11,919
and interact with my friends

888
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:17,909
[Music]

889
00:32:22,310 --> 00:32:20,480
i think i can help you with that

890
00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:22,320
who the hell are you

891
00:32:27,190 --> 00:32:25,360
i'm your skeptical fairy godmother angel

892
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:27,200
from the internet

893
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:29,360
you're my skeptical

894
00:32:33,909 --> 00:32:32,720
what relax richard i can make your wish

895
00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:33,919
come true

896
00:32:36,549 --> 00:32:34,960
what

897
00:32:38,789 --> 00:32:36,559
you mean

898
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:38,799
free beer no

899
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:39,679
no

900
00:32:43,269 --> 00:32:42,480
the other wish oh

901
00:32:45,269 --> 00:32:43,279
oh

902
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:45,279
really yes

903
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:48,240
i have news of skeptical meetings and

904
00:32:51,350 --> 00:32:50,559
talks online oh

905
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:51,360
oh

906
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:56,880
online by the vic skeptics brings you

907
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:59,760
live and interactive skeptical talks via

908
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:00,720
zoom

909
00:33:05,909 --> 00:33:03,760
anyone anywhere in the world is welcome

910
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:05,919
to join in on the third monday of the

911
00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:08,640
month just check out the skeptics cafe

912
00:33:14,710 --> 00:33:10,880
page on facebook to see when the next

913
00:33:17,430 --> 00:33:14,720
talk is and who will be presenting

914
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:17,440
alternatively see the vic skeptics

915
00:33:27,029 --> 00:33:23,830
for details that sounds great a

916
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:27,039
skeptical um god fairy

917
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:30,000
angel mother um person and

918
00:33:35,590 --> 00:33:32,960
there are similar skeptical online talks

919
00:33:37,269 --> 00:33:35,600
happening around the country and all

920
00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:37,279
over the world

921
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:40,240
all you need do is search for them

922
00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:43,360
wow now just one more question

923
00:33:47,350 --> 00:33:44,960
yes

924
00:33:48,789 --> 00:33:47,360
what about the beer

925
00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:48,799
okay

926
00:33:52,710 --> 00:33:50,320
all right

927
00:33:55,029 --> 00:33:52,720
well just for you

928
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:55,039
i'll make it so you can go to the

929
00:34:00,870 --> 00:33:58,960
supermarket buy whatever beer you like

930
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:00,880
and drink it while watching the talk

931
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:02,640
online at home

932
00:34:08,230 --> 00:34:05,200
and they say miracles never happen

933
00:34:09,990 --> 00:34:08,240
and to think i gave up being the tooth

934
00:34:11,909 --> 00:34:10,000
fairy for this

935
00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:11,919
what nothing

936
00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:22,590
[Music]

937
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:27,679
and now

938
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:29,810
a reading from the book of tim

939
00:34:33,629 --> 00:34:32,560
[Music]

940
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:33,639
with tim mendom

941
00:34:44,149 --> 00:34:41,520
[Music]

942
00:34:46,230 --> 00:34:44,159
hi my name is tim menden i'm the editor

943
00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:46,240
of the australian skeptics magazine the

944
00:34:52,230 --> 00:34:49,440
skeptic and also executive officer of

945
00:34:53,430 --> 00:34:52,240
the sceptics in australia

946
00:34:57,750 --> 00:34:53,440
and i'm reading from the skeptic

947
00:34:59,190 --> 00:34:57,760
magazine from september 2011

948
00:35:01,270 --> 00:34:59,200
from the regular feature we have in the

949
00:35:02,790 --> 00:35:01,280
magazine called what goes around

950
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:02,800
which is based on the premise that you

951
00:35:06,310 --> 00:35:04,880
can start off with one particular fact

952
00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:06,320
and work your way around through a lot

953
00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:08,240
of associations back to where you

954
00:35:11,589 --> 00:35:09,680
started

955
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:11,599
and this one is looking at bookkeepers

956
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:14,320
that sounds exciting magicians witches

957
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:17,520
and scientists that sounds more exciting

958
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:22,400
luca bartolomeo de pacioli 1447-1517

959
00:35:27,109 --> 00:35:24,480
was an italian mathematician and

960
00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:27,119
franciscan friar a collaborator with

961
00:35:31,349 --> 00:35:28,880
leonardo da vinci

962
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:31,359
the seminal contributor to the field now

963
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:34,640
known as accounting

964
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:38,240
in 1494 his book wait for it summer day

965
00:35:44,069 --> 00:35:41,520
arithmetic geometria proportioni a

966
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:44,079
paprianalita

967
00:35:47,430 --> 00:35:45,760
that's latin not italian but never mind

968
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:47,440
was published in venice

969
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:49,200
it was a synthesis of the mathematical

970
00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:51,200
knowledge of his time and contained the

971
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:54,000
first printed work on algebra written in

972
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:57,119
the vernacular so it wasn't italian

973
00:36:00,790 --> 00:35:59,040
it is also notable for including the

974
00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:00,800
first published description of the

975
00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:02,560
method of bookkeeping that venetian

976
00:36:07,109 --> 00:36:04,640
merchants used during the italian

977
00:36:08,790 --> 00:36:07,119
renaissance known as the double entry

978
00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:08,800
accounting system obviously you're very

979
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:10,160
excited about accounting but don't worry

980
00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:11,280
it gets better

981
00:36:14,790 --> 00:36:12,960
he described the use of journals and

982
00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:14,800
ledgers and warned that a person should

983
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:17,200
not go to sleep until the debits equaled

984
00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:18,720
the credits

985
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:20,000
wise advice

986
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:23,920
in 1496 he wrote de villibus quantitatis

987
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:27,040
a treatise on mathematics and magic

988
00:36:30,790 --> 00:36:28,720
it contains the first reference to card

989
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:30,800
tricks as well as guidance on how to

990
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:34,240
juggle eat fire and make coins dance

991
00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:35,680
it was the first word to note that

992
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:37,760
leonardo was left-handed

993
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:38,880
just like me

994
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:40,960
the book is divided into three sections

995
00:36:45,750 --> 00:36:43,280
mathematical problems puzzles and tricks

996
00:36:47,109 --> 00:36:45,760
and a collection of proverbs and verses

997
00:36:50,069 --> 00:36:47,119
the book has been described as the

998
00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:50,079
foundation of modern magic and numerical

999
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:51,359
puzzles

1000
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:53,280
but it was never published

1001
00:36:57,109 --> 00:36:54,720
and sat in the archives of the

1002
00:36:59,030 --> 00:36:57,119
university of bellogna seen only by a

1003
00:37:00,230 --> 00:36:59,040
small number of scholars since the

1004
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:00,240
middle ages

1005
00:37:05,430 --> 00:37:03,040
the book was rediscovered after david

1006
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:05,440
singh master a mathematician came across

1007
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:07,520
a reference to it in the 19th century

1008
00:37:10,630 --> 00:37:08,880
manuscript

1009
00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:10,640
an english translation was published for

1010
00:37:16,470 --> 00:37:14,079
the first time in 2007

1011
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:16,480
now the term magic is etymologically

1012
00:37:20,790 --> 00:37:18,880
derived from the latin word magi

1013
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:20,800
a term that was used to refer to

1014
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:23,200
zoroastrians

1015
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:25,119
performances we could now recognize as

1016
00:37:28,950 --> 00:37:26,880
conjuring have probably been practiced

1017
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:28,960
throughout history the same level of

1018
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:30,800
ingenuity that was used to produce

1019
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:33,200
famous ancient deceptions such as the

1020
00:37:36,470 --> 00:37:35,520
trojan horse but also have been used for

1021
00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:36,480
entertainment

1022
00:37:41,349 --> 00:37:38,800
or at least for cheating in money games

1023
00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:41,359
since time immemorial

1024
00:37:45,510 --> 00:37:43,520
they are also used by the practitioners

1025
00:37:48,150 --> 00:37:45,520
of various religions and cults from

1026
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:48,160
ancient times onwards to frighten

1027
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:50,480
uneducated people into obedience

1028
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:52,800
or turn them into adherence

1029
00:37:56,550 --> 00:37:54,320
however the profession of the

1030
00:37:59,270 --> 00:37:56,560
illusionist gained strength only in the

1031
00:38:00,550 --> 00:37:59,280
18th century and has enjoyed several

1032
00:38:02,710 --> 00:38:00,560
popular

1033
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:02,720
vogues since

1034
00:38:07,829 --> 00:38:04,560
what is deemed the first text book on

1035
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:07,839
magic was published in 1584

1036
00:38:13,270 --> 00:38:10,640
written by reginald scott the discovery

1037
00:38:15,349 --> 00:38:13,280
of witchcraft was actually an attempt to

1038
00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:15,359
show that witches did not exist by

1039
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:17,520
exposing how apparently miraculous feats

1040
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:20,160
of magic were done the term which was

1041
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:22,240
not exclusively negative in meaning and

1042
00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:24,960
could also indicate cunning folk

1043
00:38:27,589 --> 00:38:26,800
a term that was used generally at the

1044
00:38:29,589 --> 00:38:27,599
time

1045
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:29,599
folk magicians throughout europe were

1046
00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:32,160
viewed ambivalently capable of harming

1047
00:38:35,109 --> 00:38:33,440
and healing

1048
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:35,119
which could lead to their being accused

1049
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:37,280
as witches in the negative sense

1050
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:39,359
these accusations included contacts with

1051
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:42,000
fairies spirits or the dead outer body

1052
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:43,680
experiences traveling through another

1053
00:38:47,349 --> 00:38:44,640
world

1054
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:47,359
processions of the dead or face presided

1055
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:50,000
over by a female divinity who teaches

1056
00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:54,320
magic and gives prophecies and sorcery

1057
00:38:59,190 --> 00:38:57,040
in christianity and islam sorcery came

1058
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:59,200
to be associated with heresy and

1059
00:39:02,710 --> 00:39:00,480
apostasy

1060
00:39:05,190 --> 00:39:02,720
and to be viewed as evil

1061
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:05,200
during the european late medieval early

1062
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:06,480
modern period

1063
00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:08,560
fears about witchcraft rose to fever

1064
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:11,119
pitch and sometimes led to large-scale

1065
00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:12,400
witch-hunts

1066
00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:14,480
it was believed that christianity was

1067
00:39:20,069 --> 00:39:17,040
engaged in an apocalyptic battle against

1068
00:39:22,550 --> 00:39:20,079
the devil and his secret army of witches

1069
00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:22,560
some muslim practitioners of witchcraft

1070
00:39:27,430 --> 00:39:24,160
believe that they may seek the help of

1071
00:39:29,349 --> 00:39:27,440
the jinn j iwm in magic

1072
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:29,359
the practice of seeking help from the

1073
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:30,240
jinn

1074
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:32,800
is prohibited and regarded the same as

1075
00:39:37,109 --> 00:39:35,359
seeking help from a devil

1076
00:39:39,670 --> 00:39:37,119
the jinn are mentioned frequently in the

1077
00:39:40,829 --> 00:39:39,680
quran including a surah or chapter

1078
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:40,839
entitled

1079
00:39:45,910 --> 00:39:43,680
surah al-jin

1080
00:39:47,829 --> 00:39:45,920
islam's golden age between the 7th and

1081
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:47,839
15th centuries was as much noted for its

1082
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:49,920
scientific achievements as for its

1083
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:51,680
religious fears

1084
00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:54,560
during this time indian iranian and

1085
00:39:58,069 --> 00:39:55,839
especially greek knowledge was

1086
00:40:00,069 --> 00:39:58,079
translated into arabic with such

1087
00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:00,079
translations becoming a wellspring for

1088
00:40:05,190 --> 00:40:03,119
scientific advances by scientists with

1089
00:40:08,550 --> 00:40:05,200
diverse ethnicities

1090
00:40:11,030 --> 00:40:08,560
persians arabs berbers moors and turks

1091
00:40:14,069 --> 00:40:11,040
muslims christians stews sabian

1092
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:14,079
zoroastrians and the non-religious

1093
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:16,079
scientific achievement at this time

1094
00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:18,800
encompassed a wide range of subject area

1095
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:21,280
most notably mathematics astronomy

1096
00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:24,400
medicine physics alchemy and chemistry

1097
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:27,520
cosmology ophthalmology geography and

1098
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:31,440
cartography sociology and psychology

1099
00:40:35,990 --> 00:40:33,440
and there are traces from at least the

1100
00:40:37,430 --> 00:40:36,000
12th century in the islamic world of

1101
00:40:39,190 --> 00:40:37,440
double entry

1102
00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:39,200
bookkeeping

1103
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:40,880
which brings us back to where we started

1104
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:41,680
from

1105
00:40:47,109 --> 00:40:44,400
so you see bookkeeping is the center and

1106
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:47,119
the unity of all knowledge

1107
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:48,480
that should make you happy and sleep

1108
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:49,440
well

1109
00:40:54,230 --> 00:40:51,370
good night accountants

1110
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:54,240
[Music]

1111
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:55,760
and that's from what goes around the

1112
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:59,280
skeptic magazine september 2011

1113
00:41:02,870 --> 00:41:00,720
or volume

1114
00:41:04,309 --> 00:41:02,880
31 number three

1115
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:04,319
and you can download that copy of the

1116
00:41:08,910 --> 00:41:06,640
magazine for free from the skeptics

1117
00:41:11,670 --> 00:41:08,920
website

1118
00:41:13,990 --> 00:41:11,680
skeptics.com in fact you can download

1119
00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:14,000
most of the issues of the skeptic

1120
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:15,920
and while you're there why not subscribe

1121
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:16,800
as well

1122
00:41:21,610 --> 00:41:30,550
[Music]

1123
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:31,510
hi

1124
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:36,000
northern rivers vaccination supporters

1125
00:41:40,710 --> 00:41:38,480
we are a group of concerned citizens

1126
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:40,720
dedicated to promoting good science and

1127
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:43,359
common sense in our region the far north

1128
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:45,599
coast of new south wales

1129
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:48,079
this area famous for its natural beauty

1130
00:41:52,630 --> 00:41:50,000
and relaxed lifestyle

1131
00:41:54,390 --> 00:41:52,640
also has the lowest rates of vaccination

1132
00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:54,400
in australia

1133
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:56,800
we are out to change that by challenging

1134
00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:59,359
the myths and misinformation and by

1135
00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:01,200
providing good evidence-based

1136
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:03,760
information to the community

1137
00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:05,760
we'd love for you no matter where you

1138
00:42:11,109 --> 00:42:08,880
are in the world to join our fight

1139
00:42:12,770 --> 00:42:11,119
please visit our webpage

1140
00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:12,780
at

1141
00:42:16,630 --> 00:42:15,040
[Music]

1142
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:16,640
dot www.nrvs.info

1143
00:42:19,829 --> 00:42:18,240
we also have a link there to our

1144
00:42:21,470 --> 00:42:19,839
facebook page

1145
00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:21,480
tweet us at

1146
00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:24,880
nrvax supporters that's vax

1147
00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:26,800
and check us out on wikipedia by

1148
00:42:31,030 --> 00:42:29,040
searching for northern rivers

1149
00:42:34,380 --> 00:42:31,040
vaccination supporters

1150
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:49,510
[Music]

1151
00:42:53,230 --> 00:42:51,270
now it's time once again to look into

1152
00:42:55,589 --> 00:42:53,240
those pages at trove

1153
00:42:57,990 --> 00:42:55,599
trove.nla.gov dot a u

1154
00:43:01,750 --> 00:42:58,000
your online resource for digitized

1155
00:43:02,870 --> 00:43:01,760
newspapers and so on from australian

1156
00:43:05,829 --> 00:43:02,880
history

1157
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:05,839
and what a valuable resource it is we've

1158
00:43:10,150 --> 00:43:07,920
looked up so many interesting things

1159
00:43:11,990 --> 00:43:10,160
over the past year or so

1160
00:43:14,470 --> 00:43:12,000
mostly to do with the paranormal the

1161
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:14,480
supernatural things like that

1162
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:17,200
now we are looking more

1163
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:21,119
at the moment into so-called alternative

1164
00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:24,480
medicine or healing or wellness

1165
00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:26,720
this sort of thing last week it was

1166
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:29,119
acupuncture and this week i thought we

1167
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:30,560
would look at

1168
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:37,829
and our first port of call to get a

1169
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:40,640
little perspective on this is

1170
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:43,520
a website i recommend quack watch

1171
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:46,560
your guide to quackery health fraud

1172
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:48,880
and intelligent decisions

1173
00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:52,319
the site's been going for many years

1174
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:54,240
and this is an article by stephen

1175
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:55,200
barrett

1176
00:44:01,750 --> 00:43:58,880
indeed dated from 2015

1177
00:44:03,109 --> 00:44:01,760
and it says

1178
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:03,119
reiki

1179
00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:10,800
is one of several nonsensical methods

1180
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:13,280
commonly referred to as quote

1181
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:15,839
energy healing end quote

1182
00:44:21,270 --> 00:44:17,760
these methods are based on the idea that

1183
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:21,280
the body is surrounded or permeated by

1184
00:44:27,030 --> 00:44:24,000
an energy field that is not measurable

1185
00:44:28,790 --> 00:44:27,040
by ordinary scientific instrumentation

1186
00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:28,800
the alleged force

1187
00:44:35,510 --> 00:44:32,400
said to support life is known as ki in

1188
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:35,520
japan or chi or ki

1189
00:44:39,270 --> 00:44:37,040
in china

1190
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:39,280
and prana in india

1191
00:44:43,589 --> 00:44:41,520
reiki practitioners claim to facilitate

1192
00:44:46,630 --> 00:44:43,599
healing by strengthening

1193
00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:46,640
or balancing it

1194
00:44:51,990 --> 00:44:48,960
in a traditional reiki session the

1195
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:52,000
client lies down or sits fully clothed

1196
00:44:56,470 --> 00:44:53,839
the practitioner's hands are placed

1197
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:56,480
lightly on or just above the client's

1198
00:45:01,829 --> 00:44:59,359
body palms down using a series of

1199
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:01,839
12 to 15 positions

1200
00:45:07,829 --> 00:45:05,520
each position is held for two to five

1201
00:45:10,309 --> 00:45:07,839
minutes or until the practitioner feels

1202
00:45:13,589 --> 00:45:10,319
that the flow of energy said to be

1203
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:13,599
experienced as sensations such as heat

1204
00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:15,680
or tingling in the hands

1205
00:45:21,430 --> 00:45:19,119
has slowed or stopped typically the

1206
00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:21,440
practitioner delivers at least four

1207
00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:25,040
sessions of 30 to 90 minutes each

1208
00:45:28,390 --> 00:45:27,040
the techniques include

1209
00:45:30,069 --> 00:45:28,400
centering

1210
00:45:31,349 --> 00:45:30,079
clearing

1211
00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:31,359
beaming

1212
00:45:36,069 --> 00:45:34,720
extracting harmful energies

1213
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:36,079
infusing

1214
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:36,880
and

1215
00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:38,240
smoothing

1216
00:45:41,670 --> 00:45:39,839
and raking

1217
00:45:43,510 --> 00:45:41,680
the aura

1218
00:45:46,870 --> 00:45:43,520
all of which are claimed to influence

1219
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:46,880
the imaginary energy that reiki

1220
00:45:52,069 --> 00:45:49,200
advocates postulate

1221
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:52,079
it goes on to say the word reiki is

1222
00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:55,119
derived from two japanese words

1223
00:46:01,589 --> 00:45:59,119
rey universal and key life energy

1224
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:01,599
current reiki practice can be traced to

1225
00:46:07,109 --> 00:46:04,560
the spiritual teachings of mikawa isui

1226
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:07,119
in japan during the early 20th century

1227
00:46:10,870 --> 00:46:09,280
besui's teachings included meditative

1228
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:10,880
techniques

1229
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:13,200
and healing practices

1230
00:46:17,510 --> 00:46:14,880
and it's a very interesting article

1231
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:17,520
later it says no special background or

1232
00:46:21,910 --> 00:46:19,760
credentials needed to receive reiki

1233
00:46:23,589 --> 00:46:21,920
training to become a practitioner one

1234
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:23,599
must receive an

1235
00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:26,560
initiation or attunement from a reiki

1236
00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:29,280
master this ceremony makes one

1237
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:30,720
attuned

1238
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:34,720
to the universal life energy and enables

1239
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:38,480
one to serve as a conduit for it

1240
00:46:42,790 --> 00:46:40,319
there are said to be three different

1241
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:42,800
levels of attunement some teach that

1242
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:45,520
there are four at the higher levels one

1243
00:46:51,670 --> 00:46:49,040
can allegedly channel reiki energy and

1244
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:51,680
effect healing at a distance without

1245
00:46:55,670 --> 00:46:53,200
physical contact

1246
00:46:57,430 --> 00:46:55,680
and at the end of the article it says

1247
00:47:00,950 --> 00:46:57,440
the bottom line

1248
00:47:03,589 --> 00:47:00,960
reiki has no substantiated health value

1249
00:47:04,870 --> 00:47:03,599
and lacks a scientifically plausible

1250
00:47:06,710 --> 00:47:04,880
rationale

1251
00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:06,720
science-based healthcare settings should

1252
00:47:11,829 --> 00:47:09,200
not tolerate its use

1253
00:47:15,510 --> 00:47:11,839
and scarce government research dollars

1254
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:15,520
should not be used to study it further

1255
00:47:18,470 --> 00:47:16,560
so

1256
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:18,480
quite a clear conclusion

1257
00:47:21,190 --> 00:47:19,599
there

1258
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:21,200
and i will link to that page in this

1259
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:24,640
week's show notes but i am keen to see

1260
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:27,520
what coverage reiki has received in

1261
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:28,960
australian

1262
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:31,760
newspapers and so on over the decades

1263
00:47:36,549 --> 00:47:35,280
and my search does not go back

1264
00:47:38,710 --> 00:47:36,559
far

1265
00:47:40,340 --> 00:47:38,720
in fact it doesn't go much beyond the

1266
00:47:42,230 --> 00:47:40,350
1990s

1267
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:42,240
[Music]

1268
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:44,559
now reiki may have been around before

1269
00:47:49,190 --> 00:47:46,319
then but it was certainly

1270
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:49,200
relatively unknown so it's a more recent

1271
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:51,200
thing in this country i think

1272
00:47:54,309 --> 00:47:52,400
now first

1273
00:47:56,950 --> 00:47:54,319
item comes from

1274
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:56,960
times of victor harbour in south

1275
00:48:03,589 --> 00:47:58,160
australia

1276
00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:03,599
and that's dated the 14th of may 1998

1277
00:48:10,710 --> 00:48:07,520
an explanation of reiki by dina kozok

1278
00:48:11,829 --> 00:48:10,720
dina kozak is a reiki master slash

1279
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:11,839
teacher

1280
00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:14,720
reiki pronounced ray ki

1281
00:48:20,549 --> 00:48:17,280
is an extremely gentle yet powerful

1282
00:48:23,990 --> 00:48:20,559
method of healing using the quote laying

1283
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:24,000
on of hands end quote method

1284
00:48:29,349 --> 00:48:26,480
it is a profoundly simple technique

1285
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:29,359
suitable for all age groups from 6

1286
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:30,960
upwards

1287
00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:36,800
it is not necessary to be a practitioner

1288
00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:38,720
nor does the system require months of

1289
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:41,680
training and study one workshop one or

1290
00:48:46,470 --> 00:48:43,280
two days will give you all the

1291
00:48:49,030 --> 00:48:46,480
attunements practice and take home notes

1292
00:48:50,870 --> 00:48:49,040
you need to heal yourself and others

1293
00:48:53,190 --> 00:48:50,880
personally i have found that learning

1294
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:53,200
reiki has been a life-changing

1295
00:48:57,030 --> 00:48:54,720
experience

1296
00:48:59,829 --> 00:48:57,040
the ancient techniques used for the

1297
00:49:02,710 --> 00:48:59,839
entunements are a pure joy for both the

1298
00:49:05,109 --> 00:49:02,720
master and student opening the new

1299
00:49:07,829 --> 00:49:05,119
channel to an endless source of

1300
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:07,839
universal energy this brings with it

1301
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:10,240
heightened awareness

1302
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:12,559
and psychic abilities

1303
00:49:17,430 --> 00:49:15,359
better sleep patterns often a reduction

1304
00:49:20,390 --> 00:49:17,440
in long-term medication

1305
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:20,400
and generally a huge improvement in

1306
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:23,760
feelings of peace and well-being

1307
00:49:30,950 --> 00:49:28,079
all this and more plus there is the

1308
00:49:32,950 --> 00:49:30,960
added bonus that everyone around you

1309
00:49:34,470 --> 00:49:32,960
people pets

1310
00:49:36,309 --> 00:49:34,480
and plants

1311
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:36,319
will benefit also

1312
00:49:40,390 --> 00:49:38,160
it is my personal belief that reiki

1313
00:49:42,390 --> 00:49:40,400
should be made available at a reasonable

1314
00:49:44,549 --> 00:49:42,400
price

1315
00:49:45,430 --> 00:49:44,559
i teach traditional reiki to small

1316
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:45,440
groups

1317
00:49:49,549 --> 00:49:47,920
level 1 is 75

1318
00:49:51,430 --> 00:49:49,559
level 2 is

1319
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,440
125

1320
00:49:54,790 --> 00:49:53,520
there will be a two day weekend

1321
00:49:58,549 --> 00:49:54,800
intensive

1322
00:50:03,589 --> 00:49:58,559
at second valley levels 1 and 2 included

1323
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:03,599
on june 20 and 21 and july 18 and 19.

1324
00:50:08,549 --> 00:50:05,920
bookings are essential as class sizes

1325
00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:08,559
are limited private groups for levels 1

1326
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:11,119
2 and 3 can be arranged at a mutually

1327
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:14,880
agreeable time and place

1328
00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:17,520
and here we come across the term reiki

1329
00:50:21,670 --> 00:50:18,720
master

1330
00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:21,680
which is an interesting term

1331
00:50:26,950 --> 00:50:25,359
used quite a lot in the reiki

1332
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:26,960
business

1333
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:28,480
and it just occurred to me of course it

1334
00:50:34,150 --> 00:50:30,240
goes without saying

1335
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:34,160
that anybody who is a reiki master

1336
00:50:39,750 --> 00:50:36,960
or whatever it is is welcome to apply

1337
00:50:41,990 --> 00:50:39,760
around the world for skeptics money the

1338
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:42,000
skeptic's prize the skeptics challenge

1339
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:43,280
here in australia it's a hundred

1340
00:50:47,589 --> 00:50:44,640
thousand dollars

1341
00:50:49,190 --> 00:50:47,599
all you have to do is show that um

1342
00:50:51,990 --> 00:50:49,200
reiki is

1343
00:50:55,430 --> 00:50:52,000
more than placebo or just words or there

1344
00:50:57,990 --> 00:50:55,440
is in fact this mystical energy

1345
00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:58,000
being used and again we read from the

1346
00:51:01,990 --> 00:50:59,920
times victor harbour in fact there are

1347
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:02,000
quite a few from this newspaper about

1348
00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:03,040
reiki

1349
00:51:09,829 --> 00:51:07,839
from the 12th of march 1998

1350
00:51:12,309 --> 00:51:09,839
more turn to reiki

1351
00:51:15,349 --> 00:51:12,319
more and more people are turning to

1352
00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:15,359
alternative health procedures to provide

1353
00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:17,760
additional support for their healing for

1354
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:21,040
their personal empowerment and the

1355
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:23,920
prevention of illness the body has a

1356
00:51:30,309 --> 00:51:26,800
number of spontaneous healing mechanisms

1357
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:30,319
which are very difficult to sustain

1358
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:32,640
adequately if the body is already run

1359
00:51:38,230 --> 00:51:34,800
down under serious stress

1360
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:38,240
and perhaps undernourished reiki is an

1361
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:40,640
example of an energy replenishment

1362
00:51:43,990 --> 00:51:41,760
technique

1363
00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:44,000
which is slowly being adopted by the

1364
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:47,280
medical profession as complementary to

1365
00:51:51,910 --> 00:51:48,960
modern medicine

1366
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:51,920
reiki is non-intrusive hands-on therapy

1367
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:54,720
balancing energy flow within the body

1368
00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:57,760
and enhancing immune and endocrine

1369
00:52:02,069 --> 00:51:59,280
system functions

1370
00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:02,079
reiki is easy to learn and when the

1371
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:05,280
principles of relaxation meditation

1372
00:52:09,109 --> 00:52:06,720
centering

1373
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:09,119
energy balance and hand positions are

1374
00:52:14,630 --> 00:52:11,680
understood and applied effectively

1375
00:52:17,270 --> 00:52:14,640
the results can be quite amazing ranging

1376
00:52:19,829 --> 00:52:17,280
from restoration of depleted energy

1377
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:19,839
recovery from depression optimal return

1378
00:52:25,109 --> 00:52:22,079
to health after illness and in some

1379
00:52:29,109 --> 00:52:25,119
cases almost miraculous spontaneous

1380
00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:29,119
remission from serious diseases

1381
00:52:31,349 --> 00:52:30,240
such

1382
00:52:33,030 --> 00:52:31,359
as

1383
00:52:34,950 --> 00:52:33,040
cancer

1384
00:52:37,349 --> 00:52:34,960
now as an aside i'll say when was this

1385
00:52:40,150 --> 00:52:37,359
printed in 1998

1386
00:52:42,470 --> 00:52:40,160
i think our laws are better at the

1387
00:52:46,390 --> 00:52:42,480
moment from making such

1388
00:52:47,670 --> 00:52:46,400
outrageous claims about cancer

1389
00:52:50,309 --> 00:52:47,680
we read on

1390
00:52:52,390 --> 00:52:50,319
reiki one teaches you the foundations of

1391
00:52:54,309 --> 00:52:52,400
the reiki technique which employs

1392
00:52:57,270 --> 00:52:54,319
nothing other than your hands

1393
00:52:59,670 --> 00:52:57,280
your intention and your capacity for

1394
00:53:02,710 --> 00:52:59,680
empathy and compassion

1395
00:53:06,309 --> 00:53:02,720
reiki two is a more advanced set of

1396
00:53:09,670 --> 00:53:06,319
techniques which introduces a mental

1397
00:53:12,549 --> 00:53:09,680
slash emotional approach to facilitate

1398
00:53:15,109 --> 00:53:12,559
release of repressed trauma

1399
00:53:18,309 --> 00:53:15,119
and restoration of mental and spiritual

1400
00:53:20,390 --> 00:53:18,319
balance and also facilitates healing

1401
00:53:22,309 --> 00:53:20,400
at a distance

1402
00:53:24,549 --> 00:53:22,319
a further reiki course is offered for

1403
00:53:27,589 --> 00:53:24,559
those few people who are able to make

1404
00:53:30,549 --> 00:53:27,599
the commitment to practice as a

1405
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:30,559
consulting reiki practitioner in the

1406
00:53:34,710 --> 00:53:32,160
health field

1407
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:34,720
and we seem to be on a roll here with

1408
00:53:39,349 --> 00:53:36,880
the times at victor harbor or the or

1409
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:39,359
times victor harbor south australia from

1410
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:42,960
the 16th of may 1997

1411
00:53:46,069 --> 00:53:44,240
under the banner of health and

1412
00:53:48,630 --> 00:53:46,079
well-being

1413
00:53:50,870 --> 00:53:48,640
reiki replenishes energy

1414
00:53:53,030 --> 00:53:50,880
despite magnificent advancements in

1415
00:53:55,030 --> 00:53:53,040
modern medicine more people are turning

1416
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:55,040
to alternative health procedures these

1417
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:56,640
days to provide

1418
00:54:02,630 --> 00:53:59,680
additional support for healing the body

1419
00:54:05,430 --> 00:54:02,640
has a number of spontaneous healing

1420
00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:05,440
mechanisms which are very difficult to

1421
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:07,520
sustain adequately if the body is

1422
00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:10,000
already run down under serious stress

1423
00:54:13,349 --> 00:54:11,520
and perhaps

1424
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:13,359
undernourished as well

1425
00:54:17,910 --> 00:54:15,599
and this goes on

1426
00:54:19,109 --> 00:54:17,920
almost word for word from the previous

1427
00:54:21,109 --> 00:54:19,119
article

1428
00:54:23,430 --> 00:54:21,119
but then it says

1429
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:23,440
the south coast natural therapy center

1430
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:26,000
has already taught the practice of reiki

1431
00:54:32,069 --> 00:54:28,640
and victor harbour to some 40 interested

1432
00:54:35,670 --> 00:54:32,079
students in the first half of the year

1433
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:35,680
some of whom have come from as far away

1434
00:54:40,230 --> 00:54:37,599
as washington

1435
00:54:42,789 --> 00:54:40,240
and canberra these practitioners are now

1436
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:42,799
making a difference and stories of their

1437
00:54:49,030 --> 00:54:45,440
success with family and friends

1438
00:54:50,870 --> 00:54:49,040
and in hospitals continue to arrive

1439
00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:50,880
if you would like to join them or simply

1440
00:54:54,950 --> 00:54:53,280
find out more about reiki phone peter or

1441
00:54:55,829 --> 00:54:54,960
patsy on

1442
00:55:01,349 --> 00:54:55,839
eight

1443
00:55:03,910 --> 00:55:01,359
so a bit of a

1444
00:55:05,910 --> 00:55:03,920
an advertisement there

1445
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:05,920
and since the wording is so similar i

1446
00:55:09,270 --> 00:55:07,599
would imagine this

1447
00:55:10,789 --> 00:55:09,280
the previous article more turned to

1448
00:55:12,789 --> 00:55:10,799
reiki was

1449
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:12,799
probably written by

1450
00:55:17,109 --> 00:55:15,040
peter or patsy

1451
00:55:19,990 --> 00:55:17,119
and now from the same

1452
00:55:22,230 --> 00:55:20,000
paper times we have on the 24th of

1453
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:22,240
september 1998

1454
00:55:28,309 --> 00:55:25,119
caring for clients needs

1455
00:55:30,829 --> 00:55:28,319
ria coburn of port wu unger is a

1456
00:55:32,549 --> 00:55:30,839
registered nurse and qualified in

1457
00:55:35,829 --> 00:55:32,559
reflexology

1458
00:55:37,990 --> 00:55:35,839
massage reiki and counseling and during

1459
00:55:39,829 --> 00:55:38,000
some of the past three years she has

1460
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:39,839
become self-employed

1461
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:42,079
she combines traditional health care and

1462
00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:44,559
the complementary therapies to benefit

1463
00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:47,760
individual clients needs ria frequently

1464
00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:50,480
works collaboratively with other health

1465
00:55:54,030 --> 00:55:52,480
professionals including medical

1466
00:55:56,950 --> 00:55:54,040
practitioners

1467
00:55:59,910 --> 00:55:56,960
reflexology is a specific health massage

1468
00:56:02,630 --> 00:55:59,920
technique that stimulates the reflexes

1469
00:56:04,549 --> 00:56:02,640
in the feet and assists the body to

1470
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:04,559
overcome health problems

1471
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:05,760
reiki

1472
00:56:12,069 --> 00:56:09,040
is hands-on healing using universal

1473
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:12,079
energy to create well-being

1474
00:56:17,510 --> 00:56:15,440
you know as an aside i'll just say

1475
00:56:18,870 --> 00:56:17,520
it's amazing that any paper would just

1476
00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:18,880
print such

1477
00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:26,230
sometimes we read on

1478
00:56:30,950 --> 00:56:28,720
ria has worked in the southern region

1479
00:56:33,270 --> 00:56:30,960
for the past 11 years and prior to

1480
00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:33,280
self-employment managed a government

1481
00:56:38,630 --> 00:56:35,440
service aimed at assisting people with

1482
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:38,640
severe disabilities to remain at home

1483
00:56:43,829 --> 00:56:41,040
as part of her services she offers

1484
00:56:46,870 --> 00:56:43,839
counseling and patient education and has

1485
00:56:49,190 --> 00:56:46,880
tertiary qualifications in these areas

1486
00:56:51,789 --> 00:56:49,200
ria's clients have the choice of

1487
00:56:54,630 --> 00:56:51,799
combining the complementary therapies of

1488
00:56:57,510 --> 00:56:54,640
reflexology with reiki or massage

1489
00:56:59,510 --> 00:56:57,520
reflexology and reiki

1490
00:57:01,510 --> 00:56:59,520
clients regularly report relief from

1491
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:01,520
aches and pains including backaches

1492
00:57:06,549 --> 00:57:04,720
headaches migraine insomnia pmt stress

1493
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:06,559
and sinus problems

1494
00:57:11,910 --> 00:57:08,400
consultation services are provided at

1495
00:57:14,309 --> 00:57:11,920
port wilunga by arrangement or in the

1496
00:57:16,230 --> 00:57:14,319
client's home

1497
00:57:17,990 --> 00:57:16,240
sounds like another

1498
00:57:19,750 --> 00:57:18,000
thinly veiled

1499
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:19,760
advertisement

1500
00:57:23,109 --> 00:57:21,200
but um

1501
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:23,119
i'm sure it still happens today papers

1502
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:25,680
print things like

1503
00:57:30,069 --> 00:57:27,760
reiki is hands-on healing using

1504
00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:30,079
universal energy

1505
00:57:34,390 --> 00:57:32,240
and keeping in the same paper and i

1506
00:57:35,829 --> 00:57:34,400
think most of these are from the the

1507
00:57:38,549 --> 00:57:35,839
same paper we

1508
00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:38,559
end up in the year 1999 on the 8th of

1509
00:57:42,390 --> 00:57:39,520
april

1510
00:57:44,710 --> 00:57:42,400
help to get back on track

1511
00:57:46,470 --> 00:57:44,720
almost everyone at some time or other in

1512
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:46,480
their lives can feel lost or without

1513
00:57:50,230 --> 00:57:47,920
direction

1514
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:50,240
while we all possess intuitive ability

1515
00:57:56,069 --> 00:57:53,440
to guide us some find difficulty in

1516
00:57:57,270 --> 00:57:56,079
calling on their own

1517
00:57:58,870 --> 00:57:57,280
knowing

1518
00:58:01,430 --> 00:57:58,880
to assist them

1519
00:58:02,710 --> 00:58:01,440
joanne and janice at

1520
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:02,720
mate tree

1521
00:58:07,349 --> 00:58:05,040
in victor harbour offer a

1522
00:58:10,630 --> 00:58:07,359
varied selection of services aimed at

1523
00:58:13,430 --> 00:58:10,640
helping people get back on track

1524
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:13,440
psychic guidance readings

1525
00:58:18,549 --> 00:58:15,599
are for those people who would

1526
00:58:20,150 --> 00:58:18,559
like their door opened again

1527
00:58:21,510 --> 00:58:20,160
and their path

1528
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:21,520
illuminated

1529
00:58:25,030 --> 00:58:23,760
readings are private and usually take an

1530
00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:25,040
hour

1531
00:58:29,349 --> 00:58:27,760
reiki healing accelerates the body's

1532
00:58:32,470 --> 00:58:29,359
ability to heal

1533
00:58:35,109 --> 00:58:32,480
physical ailments and opens the mind and

1534
00:58:36,470 --> 00:58:35,119
spirit to the causes of dis

1535
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:36,480
ease

1536
00:58:44,470 --> 00:58:41,760
and that's written dis hyphen e-a-s-e

1537
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:44,480
dis ease and pain

1538
00:58:48,390 --> 00:58:47,280
treatments are relaxing unique and

1539
00:58:52,710 --> 00:58:48,400
blissful

1540
00:58:55,270 --> 00:58:52,720
consultations last for one hour

1541
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:55,280
chakra balancing is a wonderful

1542
00:59:00,789 --> 00:58:57,920
spiritual and uplifting experience for

1543
00:59:03,430 --> 00:59:00,799
when we can feel out of balance

1544
00:59:05,109 --> 00:59:03,440
feelings of total peace and i should i

1545
00:59:06,789 --> 00:59:05,119
should put soothing music yes i'll put

1546
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:06,799
some soothing music here i'll start that

1547
00:59:10,710 --> 00:59:07,490
again

1548
00:59:13,349 --> 00:59:10,720
[Music]

1549
00:59:16,630 --> 00:59:13,359
chakra balancing is a wonderful

1550
00:59:19,750 --> 00:59:16,640
spiritual and uplifting experience for

1551
00:59:22,630 --> 00:59:19,760
when we feel out of balance

1552
00:59:25,430 --> 00:59:22,640
feelings of total peace and tranquility

1553
00:59:28,150 --> 00:59:25,440
can be felt during the consultation

1554
00:59:29,589 --> 00:59:28,160
leaving you with a sense of absolute

1555
00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:29,599
calm

1556
00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:31,440
within

1557
00:59:37,270 --> 00:59:34,240
creative visualization therapy is

1558
00:59:40,390 --> 00:59:37,280
beneficial for almost every issue that

1559
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:40,400
may arise in your life and it is the

1560
00:59:45,109 --> 00:59:43,440
ultimate indulgence for those who simply

1561
00:59:47,510 --> 00:59:45,119
want to relax

1562
00:59:49,430 --> 00:59:47,520
during the one hour session you will be

1563
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:49,440
gently guided through a series of

1564
00:59:53,990 --> 00:59:51,680
therapeutic visualizations

1565
00:59:55,990 --> 00:59:54,000
that assist you in achieving your

1566
00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:56,000
highest potential

1567
01:00:04,069 --> 00:59:57,599
and overall

1568
01:00:09,510 --> 01:00:06,230
joanne cooper is a

1569
01:00:12,150 --> 01:00:09,520
reiki master slash teacher

1570
01:00:15,589 --> 01:00:12,160
and clinical hypnotherapist

1571
01:00:17,829 --> 01:00:15,599
janice hirst is a reiki master slash

1572
01:00:20,230 --> 01:00:17,839
teacher both women are available at

1573
01:00:23,349 --> 01:00:20,240
their office in victor harbour to make

1574
01:00:25,430 --> 01:00:23,359
an appointment phone eight five five two

1575
01:00:28,470 --> 01:00:25,440
eight six six six

1576
01:00:31,829 --> 01:00:28,480
six six six

1577
01:00:33,349 --> 01:00:31,839
and finally another

1578
01:00:35,349 --> 01:00:33,359
another reference

1579
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:35,359
here from 1994

1580
01:00:40,030 --> 01:00:37,680
and not from times and victor harbour in

1581
01:00:42,789 --> 01:00:40,040
fact we have a publication called

1582
01:00:45,750 --> 01:00:42,799
lesbians on the loose

1583
01:00:48,069 --> 01:00:45,760
and this is based in sydney as far as i

1584
01:00:50,390 --> 01:00:48,079
know this is volume five number seven

1585
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:50,400
july 1994

1586
01:00:55,270 --> 01:00:53,280
and it's an advertisement reiki

1587
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:55,280
this gentle and powerful healing energy

1588
01:01:01,030 --> 01:00:57,119
is available for you

1589
01:01:04,230 --> 01:01:01,040
jude story reiki channel advanced is

1590
01:01:06,069 --> 01:01:04,240
fully experienced in the uc reiki method

1591
01:01:08,069 --> 01:01:06,079
of natural healing

1592
01:01:10,069 --> 01:01:08,079
this hands-on healing is through an

1593
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:10,079
energy transmission which is generally

1594
01:01:14,150 --> 01:01:13,200
felt as a warmth or tingling

1595
01:01:17,190 --> 01:01:14,160
reiki

1596
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:17,200
pronounced rei ki means universal life

1597
01:01:23,990 --> 01:01:20,160
force a term created after its

1598
01:01:25,190 --> 01:01:24,000
rediscovery by dr mikhail isui a

1599
01:01:26,549 --> 01:01:25,200
japanese

1600
01:01:29,030 --> 01:01:26,559
minister

1601
01:01:31,430 --> 01:01:29,040
reiki can be used for emotional or

1602
01:01:33,750 --> 01:01:31,440
physical healing or simply to improve

1603
01:01:36,549 --> 01:01:33,760
the quality of your life for further

1604
01:01:41,069 --> 01:01:36,559
information and appointments telephone

1605
01:01:42,630 --> 01:01:41,079
the newtown women's center

1606
01:01:44,950 --> 01:01:42,640
550-6993

1607
01:01:47,910 --> 01:01:44,960
take the step to put you

1608
01:01:50,530 --> 01:01:47,920
in total control of your life

1609
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:50,540
that's a big claim

1610
01:01:57,829 --> 01:01:55,750
and so there we are

1611
01:02:01,270 --> 01:01:57,839
now i've seen reiki used

1612
01:02:03,990 --> 01:02:01,280
many times because they have

1613
01:02:07,430 --> 01:02:04,000
booths at mind body wallet mind body

1614
01:02:08,150 --> 01:02:07,440
spirit festivals and people lying down

1615
01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:08,160
and

1616
01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:09,200
yeah

1617
01:02:14,630 --> 01:02:11,839
these so-called reiki masters hover

1618
01:02:16,069 --> 01:02:14,640
above them with their hands extended

1619
01:02:19,060 --> 01:02:16,079
and

1620
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:19,070
there's really not much to it

1621
01:02:24,309 --> 01:02:22,000
[Music]

1622
01:02:26,309 --> 01:02:24,319
but if you're

1623
01:02:28,390 --> 01:02:26,319
a believer in reiki

1624
01:02:31,829 --> 01:02:28,400
on either side so if you're the patient

1625
01:02:34,390 --> 01:02:31,839
or you're the practitioner i imagine you

1626
01:02:35,750 --> 01:02:34,400
uh feel a great benefit

1627
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:35,760
from the

1628
01:02:42,309 --> 01:02:40,319
lying there expecting to feel some sort

1629
01:02:44,390 --> 01:02:42,319
of healing from some reiki master you

1630
01:02:46,150 --> 01:02:44,400
probably will feel better

1631
01:02:47,910 --> 01:02:46,160
um you're being

1632
01:02:49,910 --> 01:02:47,920
given some attention and you think

1633
01:02:53,349 --> 01:02:49,920
something's happening to you from the

1634
01:02:54,390 --> 01:02:53,359
practitioner or master

1635
01:02:55,750 --> 01:02:54,400
side

1636
01:02:58,390 --> 01:02:55,760
then you're

1637
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:58,400
probably convinced that you are actually

1638
01:03:03,670 --> 01:03:01,280
being of benefit to your patient and i

1639
01:03:07,029 --> 01:03:03,680
imagine that makes you feel quite good

1640
01:03:09,589 --> 01:03:07,039
as well as a source of income

1641
01:03:11,029 --> 01:03:09,599
next week on the trove segment we might

1642
01:03:12,950 --> 01:03:11,039
look at another

1643
01:03:14,940 --> 01:03:12,960
form of so-called

1644
01:03:15,990 --> 01:03:14,950
alternative medicine

1645
01:03:17,670 --> 01:03:16,000
[Music]

1646
01:03:19,349 --> 01:03:17,680
then you too can

1647
01:03:21,029 --> 01:03:19,359
dive into trove and see what you can

1648
01:03:23,190 --> 01:03:21,039
find about reiki

1649
01:03:26,029 --> 01:03:23,200
or healing or wellness or whatever you

1650
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:26,039
like by visiting trove

1651
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:27,680
trove.nla.gov

1652
01:03:45,190 --> 01:03:31,250
dot a u

1653
01:03:48,789 --> 01:03:46,710
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1654
01:03:51,829 --> 01:03:48,799
zone podcast now

1655
01:03:54,069 --> 01:03:51,839
no matter where you are around the world

1656
01:03:56,470 --> 01:03:54,079
and depending what time it is of the day

1657
01:03:58,630 --> 01:03:56,480
of course you can tune in

1658
01:04:01,190 --> 01:03:58,640
and see a talk

1659
01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:01,200
by me i'm giving for the swedish

1660
01:04:07,910 --> 01:04:04,240
skeptics the swedish skeptics i can tell

1661
01:04:08,950 --> 01:04:07,920
you that's going to be 6 a.m here in

1662
01:04:11,750 --> 01:04:08,960
sydney

1663
01:04:15,270 --> 01:04:11,760
on thursday this coming thursday the 2nd

1664
01:04:17,109 --> 01:04:15,280
of december now you can check your local

1665
01:04:19,910 --> 01:04:17,119
times around the world to see when that

1666
01:04:22,150 --> 01:04:19,920
is in your area and it's for the swedish

1667
01:04:24,549 --> 01:04:22,160
skeptics in the pub the talk is called

1668
01:04:26,470 --> 01:04:24,559
the adventures of richard saunders oh i

1669
01:04:28,390 --> 01:04:26,480
wonder what that's all about

1670
01:04:30,870 --> 01:04:28,400
it says here

1671
01:04:33,349 --> 01:04:30,880
richard saunders australian skeptic of

1672
01:04:36,870 --> 01:04:33,359
the internationally acclaimed podcast

1673
01:04:39,270 --> 01:04:36,880
the skeptic zone fame tells us about his

1674
01:04:42,549 --> 01:04:39,280
adventures and decades-long experience

1675
01:04:43,910 --> 01:04:42,559
of skepticism pseudoscience and quacks

1676
01:04:45,510 --> 01:04:43,920
and it goes on to say this will be an

1677
01:04:47,510 --> 01:04:45,520
online event with the opportunity for

1678
01:04:49,349 --> 01:04:47,520
participants to send written questions

1679
01:04:51,270 --> 01:04:49,359
during the presentation which will be

1680
01:04:54,069 --> 01:04:51,280
answered in the q a afterwards well i'll

1681
01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:54,079
try to answer them i'll do my best

1682
01:04:59,109 --> 01:04:57,280
and the official time for that is the

1683
01:05:01,750 --> 01:04:59,119
1st of december

1684
01:05:03,589 --> 01:05:01,760
at 200 hours c

1685
01:05:05,670 --> 01:05:03,599
t e but look i'll put a link in this

1686
01:05:07,829 --> 01:05:05,680
week's show notes check it out and you

1687
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can discover when that might be in your

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01:05:10,230 --> 01:05:09,280
part of the world and what a thrill it

1689
01:05:12,630 --> 01:05:10,240
will be

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to give an international talk for my

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01:05:16,710 --> 01:05:14,000
friends

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01:05:18,309 --> 01:05:16,720
at the swedish skeptics

1693
01:05:19,510 --> 01:05:18,319
thank you to those people who continue

1694
01:05:21,190 --> 01:05:19,520
to support the skeptic zone at

1695
01:05:23,349 --> 01:05:21,200
skepticzone.tv

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01:05:25,589 --> 01:05:23,359
via patreon or paypal

1697
01:05:28,230 --> 01:05:25,599
and it's uh owing to you people that

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01:05:29,190 --> 01:05:28,240
everybody else gets to hear the show

1699
01:05:31,349 --> 01:05:29,200
hmm

1700
01:05:32,789 --> 01:05:31,359
including me i guess i could record it

1701
01:05:34,950 --> 01:05:32,799
here just for myself and listen to it

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01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:34,960
back but me

1703
01:05:37,990 --> 01:05:36,880
coming up on next week's show the trove

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01:05:40,789 --> 01:05:38,000
segment

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01:05:43,589 --> 01:05:40,799
looks at homeopathy

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01:05:45,829 --> 01:05:43,599
the poster child of quackery

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01:05:47,990 --> 01:05:45,839
but for this week this is richard

1708
01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:48,000
saunders signing off from sydney

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01:05:56,470 --> 01:05:55,029
you've been listening to the skeptic

1710
01:05:57,829 --> 01:05:56,480
zone podcast

1711
01:06:01,029 --> 01:05:57,839
please visit our website at

1712
01:06:06,710 --> 01:06:04,150
for show notes contacts and to access

1713
01:06:08,870 --> 01:06:06,720
the back catalog of episodes going back

1714
01:06:10,789 --> 01:06:08,880
to 2008

1715
01:06:13,589 --> 01:06:10,799
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1716
01:06:15,750 --> 01:06:13,599
on twitter at skepticzone

1717
01:06:16,829 --> 01:06:15,760
visit our facebook page or leave a

1718
01:06:19,670 --> 01:06:16,839
review on

1719
01:06:23,029 --> 01:06:19,680
itunes you can also support the skeptic

1720
01:06:25,430 --> 01:06:23,039
zone via patreon or paypal the skeptic

1721
01:06:27,589 --> 01:06:25,440
zone podcast is an independent

1722
01:06:29,589 --> 01:06:27,599
production the views and opinions

1723
01:06:32,069 --> 01:06:29,599
expressed on the skeptic zone are not

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01:06:34,750 --> 01:06:32,079
necessarily those of australian skeptics